Deinterlace in wrong field order

FIle contains download-link

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Link-to-example-movie.odt

Seriously? An ODT file to give a link to the forum where there is a link to a rapidshare link to a sample?

What's wrong with you?

changed the description

http://streams.videolan.org/issues/7713/sample-interlace.mpg

added Component::Video: filters label

VLC and MediaInfo consider it TFF.

I see what you mean. Sorry, copied the wrong link. But still, I'm only trying to help :-(

I just wanted to add to the comments. All the videos sources with top field first displayed in wrong field order when turning any double deinterlacer on (be it Phosphor or Yadif). All the video sources with bottom field first (all DV codec videos) are displayed correctly. Is there a possible just to have a checkbox option or something such that if the user sees the wrong field order, he can check it and the field order will be swapped?

Replying to [comment:5 metaleonid]:

I just wanted to add to the comments. All the videos sources with top field first displayed in wrong field order when turning any double deinterlacer on (be it Phosphor or Yadif). All the video sources with bottom field first (all DV codec videos) are displayed correctly. Is there a possible just to have a checkbox option or something such that if the user sees the wrong field order, he can check it and the field order will be swapped?

No, it should be automatic.

You mean with a simple filter (non frame doubler) it works fine?

Yes, but it doesn't detect it automatically and it seems to assume bottom field first for all sources. I think the user control would be perfect.

I just checked my Huffyuv AVI (with top field first of course) trying all deinterlace modes. Bob, Yadif(2x), Phosphor are all wrong.

The deinterlace modes where frame rate is not double seem to be fine, but such deinterlacers don't separate the fields, so it can't be wrong. Am I right?

Replying to [comment:7 metaleonid]:

so it can't be wrong. Am I right?

Right, Wrong, everything is relative :)

Jokes aside, I don't know yet.

Replying to [comment:7 metaleonid]:

Yes, but it doesn't detect it automatically and it seems to assume bottom field first for all sources.

I seriously doubt this.

What do you mean you doubt it? VLC never displayed TFF footage correctly using 2x deinterlacers. This has been the case on all platforms Mac OS and Windows as far as I observed. Do you want me to supply you with the same footage of DV AVI and Huffyuv AVI? The former one with bottom field first is displayed correctly and the latter one with top field first is flickering. If you would like, how many seconds of footage do you need?

I doubt that we don't detect any TFF.

But samples are welcome.

I checked all modes. Here is the list using Huffyuv AVI (720x480, NTSC 29.97, Top Field First).

Discard - fine Blend - fine Mean - fine Bob - flickers Linear - flickers X - fine Yadif - fine '''Yadif (2x) - flickers Phosphor - flickers '''

If you detect TFFs, then why double rate deinterlacers produce flickering motion?

Maybe because it is not correctly applied? Detection and application are 2 different things.

Ok, then it is applied incorrectly. :) But the bottom line is that the motion flickers when source is TFF.

Now, I am trying to attach a file, but it is more than 500Kb. Let me convert it to mpeg2 DVD format and see if I can attach them. Give me 20 mins.

http://streams.videolan.org/upload/

I uploaded Huffyuv.avi but I forgot to specify ticket #. Have you got it or do you want me to reup?

http://streams.videolan.org/issues/7713/Huffyuv.avi

I also encoded Huffyuv.avi into .mpg file using TMPGEnc using top field first. This file seemed to be played correctly unlike Huffyuv.avi. I didn't upload .mpg.

I also uploaded dv.avi which is the same footage as Huffyuv.avi just to demonstrated that dv.avi is played correctly.

Update. I spoke to someone from digitalFaq.com forum. He informed me that mpg files are played correctly, but AVI files are not because they don't have the information about field order. Thus it is assumed that the field order is BFF for every AVI file. Another thing is that that I authored some DVDs from mpeg2 files that I encoded from Huffyuv AVI files with TMPGenc. While some mpeg 2 source files are played correctly, the DVD itself is not played correctly. I will do more testing and get back here.

In a meanwhile, if that's the case and if source file have incorrect field order information, why not to implement the checkbox to flip field order?

So, if there is no way to give the field order in AVI (I doubt there is no extension for that, though) then TMPGenc is wrong.

TMPGenc determines field order correctly by analyzing motion of the source file. It then writes field order in mpeg file. However, I don't know whether it is correctly written in DVD. But why not implement the custom flag so that the end user can invert field order if it is not correctly written in the source file? Do you think it doesn't make sense?

It can make sense, but TMPGenc is wrong:

If you put fields in avi, you follow BFF.

If you don't respect that, you flag it.

Why TMPGenc is wrong if it correctly detects field order based on motion? So are you saying that by default all AVI files have to be BFF?

Most analog video capture with TV Tuners is done using Huffyuv codec AVI with TFF.

Anyway, should I request a feature to implement checkbox flag in VLC to swap field order for such cases?

I tried to find a way to put field order information in my existing AVI files. I couldn't find the way to do so.

assigned to @jbk

Replying to [comment:24 metaleonid]:

Why TMPGenc is wrong if it correctly detects field order based on motion? So are you saying that by default all AVI files have to be BFF?

Most analog video capture with TV Tuners is done using Huffyuv codec AVI with TFF.

Anyway, should I request a feature to implement checkbox flag in VLC to swap field order for such cases?

I tried to find a way to put field order information in my existing AVI files. I couldn't find the way to do so.

Yes, all AVI have to be BFF by convention from the DV world.

Software encoding in AVI with TFF without signaling it are wrong. Full point.

Well, it is what it is I guess. Should I raise a request for a checkbox feature to swap field order for such cases?

Sure. But the question is more how to flag the avi as tff

Hi JB,

Wait a sec. I couldn't find any references to formal AVI definition that it has to be BFF. By DV world you meant Digital Video world and not DV codec, right? :) AFAIK, AVI is the container that may contain different video file formats with various codecs. Some codecs may have BFF and some other TFF. Yes DV codec is BFF. But, AFAIK, Huffyuv codec is always TFF. I have had many capture cards from ATI to Hauppauge WinTV to LifeView FlyVideo to Compro VideoMate and all of them capture in with TFF when selected compression is Huffyuv codec.

As for how to flag it... Why not have the new section between Video->Deinterlace mode and Video->Post processing. Call it something like "Force Field Order" and then have 3 values: None (default), Top Field First, Bottom Field First. If any last 2 are selected, they should overwrite the default settings. What do you think?

--Leonid

PS. If this feature is implemented, I will be ready to throw my multi-system CRT TV out of the window or simply donate it. :)

And by the way, I suggest the feature for everything not just for AVI. Thanks.

I don't see how HuffYUV can be "always TFF".

Anyway, we need to have a filter to swap fields.

As far as I remember a while back I saw a C++ code somewhere for VLC which was initializing field order flag based on some condition. If this is the case, maybe just simply enforce condition if TFF or BFF selected? Why need to swap?

Could be doable, but really annoying tbh.

I am a C++ developer. I can try to help out later when I get time. I guess I have to to start with this: https://wiki.videolan.org/GetTheSource/

changed title from deinterlace in wrong order to Deinterlace in wrong field order

Has anybody started working on implementing the simple option "Swap interlace fields?"

TV channels often broadcast H.264 or MPEG2 streams with incorrect field order (believe it or not). This option is sorely needed.

Jb? Actually the option Swap fields should be manual. Like a checkbox which will swap fields if checked.

Replying to [comment:36 vadiav]:

Has anybody started working on implementing the simple option "Swap interlace fields?"

Not that I know of.

What can I do to start implementing a manual checkbox option "Swap interlace fields" and a related hotkey?

I created a separate ticket for the 'Swap field order' RFE at https://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/10191 because it is quite off-topic in this deinterlacing-related ticket.

In MPlayer there's an option called field-dominance to force deinterlacing with TTF or BTF which fixes this problem. It should be easy to implement it in VLC in the deinterlacing options section.

Hello, I guess nobody has started working on it. Can anyone implement the feature? It really shouldn't take more than 15 minutes do add a manual selection.

mentioned in issue #8109

mentioned in issue #10191

unassigned @jbk

marked this issue as related to #8109

marked this issue as related to #10191

Deinterlace in wrong field order

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